Did you know that in Medieval England parents would tie rabbits’ feet around their babies’ necks to ward off illness? Doctors would also spit on wounds because saliva was believed to have healing properties.
Indeed, history is replete with unfounded health beliefs, and to everyone’s detriment, the milk myth is among the most tenacious.
Milk is much more than just a drink; it’s a cultural phenomenon that can be traced back thousands of years. And still today, the milk myth resonates loud and clear: in 2001, the average American child consumed 104 quarts of cow’s milk.
Milk depletes the calcium from your bones
The milk myth has spread around the world based on the flawed belief that this protein and calcium-rich drink is essential to support good overall health and bone health in particular at any age. It is easy to understand that the confusion about milk’s imaginary benefits stems from the fact that it contains calcium – around 300 mg per cup.
But many scientific studies have shown an assortment of detrimental health effects directly linked to milk consumption. And the most surprising link is that not only do we barely absorb the calcium in cow’s milk (especially if pasteurized), but to make matters worse, it actually increases calcium loss from the bones. What an irony this is!
Here’s how it happens. Like all animal protein, milk acidifies the body pH which in turn triggers a biological correction. You see, calcium is an excellent acid neutralizer and the biggest storage of calcium in the body is – you guessed it… in the bones. So the very same calcium that our bones need to stay strong is utilized to neutralize the acidifying effect of milk. Once calcium is pulled out of the bones, it leaves the body via the urine, so that the surprising net result after this is an actual calcium deficit.
Knowing this, you’ll understand why statistics show that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population (there’s more on this later).
But the sad truth is that most mainstream health practitioners ignore these proven facts. I know it firsthand because when I was diagnosed with osteoporosis, my doctor recommended that I drink lots of milk in addition to taking Fosamax.
Fortunately, I did neither, because I knew that…
Cow’s milk is custom-designed for calves
Thanks to our creative ingenuity and perhaps related to our ancient survival needs, we adopted the dubious habit of drinking another species’ milk. Nobody can dispute that cow’s milk is an excellent food source for calves. Weighing around 100 pounds at birth, a calf typically gains approximately eight times its weight by the time it is weaned. But unlike humans, once calves are weaned, they never drink milk again. And the same applies to every mammalian species on this planet.
Also, each mammalian species has its own “designer” milk, and cow’s milk is no exception. For example, cow’s milk contains on average three times the amount of protein than human milk which creates metabolic disturbances in humans that have detrimental bone health consequences.
It’s important to bear in mind that mother’s milk is excellent nourishment for human babies, but its composition is very different from cow’s milk.
Scientific studies show that milk increases fracture risk
Many scientific studies contradict the conventional wisdom that milk and dairy consumption help reduce osteoporotic fractures. Surprisingly, studies demonstrating that milk and dairy products actually fail to protect bones from fractures outnumber studies that prove otherwise. Even drinking milk from a young age does not protect against future fracture risk but actually increases it. Shattering the “savings account” calcium theory, Cumming and Klineberg report their study findings as follows:
“Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years, was associated with an increased risk of hip fracture in old age. (“Case-Control Study of Risk Factors for Hip Fractures in the Elderly”. American Journal of Epidemiology. Vol. 139, No. 5, 1994).1
And the 12 year long Harvard Nurses’ Health Study found that those who consumed the most calcium from dairy foods broke more bones than those who rarely drank milk. This is a broad study based on 77,761 women aged 34 through 59 years of age.
In the authors’ own words:
“These data do not support the hypothesis that higher consumption of milk or other food sources of calcium by adult women protects against hip or forearm fractures.” (Source: Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. American Journal of Public Health. 1997).2
Shocking statistics ignored by mainstream medicine
In the Osteoporosis Reversal Program one of the topics I discuss is the complete disregard of scientific evidence that discredits milk and dairy products as the best source of calcium.
One exception is Amy Lanou Ph.D., nutrition director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in Washington, D.C., who states that:
“The countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis are the ones where people drink the most milk and have the most calcium in their diets. The connection between calcium consumption and bone health is actually very weak, and the connection between dairy consumption and bone health is almost nonexistent.”
Surprised? You shouldn’t be, because as I mentioned earlier in this article…
Milk is an acidifying animal protein
Like any other animal derived protein-rich food, milk has a positive potential renal acid load (PRAL) which triggers a protective biological reaction to neutralize all the damaging acidic protein before it reaches the kidneys.
The body is designed for survival, so it sacrifices bone density to protect the kidneys and urinary tract because the latter are essential to survival. And the most readily available source of acid neutralizer is in the bones. So even though milk contains calcium, it ends up sapping your bones of that crucial mineral. But that’s not all because…
Today’s milk is a processed food
Until the end of the 19th century in Europe and the beginning of the 20th century in the US, milk was consumed unpasteurized or raw. Later on, homogenization became the industry’s standard. These processes further alter milk’s chemistry and actually increase its detrimental acidifying effects.
Raw milk advocates claim that if cow’s milk is left “as is” it is a healthy and wholesome drink. It is true that raw milk is less acidifying than processed milk and that pasteurization and homogenization may cause a long list of digestive and other health problems, but I still don’t recommend drinking any kind of cow’s milk.
Nowadays, milking cows are given antibiotics and most are also injected with a genetically engineered form of bovine growth hormone (rBGH). A man-made or synthetic hormone used to artificially increase milk production, rBGH also increases blood levels of the insulin-growth factor 1 (IGF-1) in those who drink it. And higher levels of IGF-1 are linked to several cancers.
This should not be ignored, especially in view of recent information by Samuel Epstein, MD, Professor of Environmental Medicine at the University of Illinois School of Public Health, and Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition. In a press release titled “Monsanto’s Hormonal Milk Poses Serious Risks of Breast Cancer, Besides Other Cancers” (June 21, 1998) Dr. Epstein concludes that:
“Drinking rBGH milk would thus be expected to significantly increase IGF-1 blood levels and consequently to increase risks of developing breast cancer and promoting its invasiveness.”
Even though organic milk is from cows that are not given antibiotics or rBHG, if you truly care about your bone health and your overall health, you should…
Avoid drinking cow’s milk
As I explain in the Osteoporosis Reversal Program and contrary to mainstream recommendations, drinking milk and eating lots of dairy products are not the answer to reversing osteoporosis. And while in the Osteoporosis Reversal Program no food is completely off limits, I strongly recommend that you explore the different milk substitute options that I will list for you here.
But first, I’d like to clarify that unsweetened fermented or cultured dairy products such as yogurt, kefir, and sour cream are acid neutral. Yogurt in particular is chock-full of beneficial qualities. As is the case with milk, organic yogurt does not have rBGH, but even several of the most well-known yogurt brands have stopped using the bovine growth hormone (rBGH). You should call your favorite yogurt company to confirm. One more clarification: when I say unsweetened I mean without sugar or any artificial sweetener. However, you can add honey or stevia, a zero calorie plant-derived sweetener that is delicious and alkalizing as well. I like to carry around stevia packets in my purse so that I’m always able to sweeten food or drinks when I’m on the go.
The best milk substitutes
My favorite milk substitute is unsweetened almond milk, not only because it is alkalizing (as almonds are), but also because it’s delicious and tastes very similar to milk. I even cook with it!
If almond milk is hard to get, you can also try rice or soy milk. I strongly suggest consuming only organic soy milk to insure it’s not made with genetically modified soy. There is also some controversy about unfermented soy products, so try to use it in moderation.
What Else Haven’t They Told You?
What else have you been told about bone health by your doctor or other “experts” that is flat out wrong? What other “facts” (like drinking milk does a body good) are keeping you from optimal health?
Myths like these are a big reason I created the Osteoporosis Reversal Program. To give you the straight scoop on how to deal with osteoporosis the natural way.
I can help you take control of your future.
Learn more about the Osteoporosis Reversal Program here →
And remember, if you ever hear someone ask “Got milk?” smile and think to yourself “No, because I know better!”
And as always, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Share them with me and the rest of our community by leaving a comment below.
References
1 Cumming RG, Klineberg RJ. “Case-Control Study of Risk Factors for Hip Fractures in the Elderly”. American Journal of Epidemiology. Vol. 139, No. 5, 1994
2 Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. American Journal of Public Health. 1997
Thank you for the info. I got this link from a Raw Beauty Facebook commenter. Are you saying that organic soy milk may also be unfermented? Thanks again.
Corey
All I can say is thank you and I would love to know more
I won’t be insulting, nor take you to task, but all went well until you got to “Soy Milk.” If there’s a worse beverage than that it would be hard to find. What Makes Soy Such a Risky Food to Eat?
Here is a summary of soy’s most glaring problems.
1.91 percent of soy grown in the US is genetically modified (GM). The genetic modification is done to impart resistance to the toxic herbicide Roundup. While this is meant to increase farming efficiency and provide you with less expensive soy, the downside is that your soy is loaded with this toxic pesticide. The plants also contain genes from bacteria that produce a protein that has never been part of the human food supply.
GM soy has been linked to an increase in allergies. Disturbingly, the only published human feeding study on GM foods ever conducted verified that the gene inserted into GM soy transfers into the DNA of our gut bacteria and continues to function. This means that years after you stop eating GM soy, you may still have a potentially allergenic protein continuously being produced in your intestines.
Even more frightening is the potential for GM soy to cause infertility in future generations, which has been evidenced by recent Russian research.
2.Soy contains natural toxins known as “anti-nutrients.”
Soy foods contain anti-nutritional factors such as saponins, soyatoxin, phytates, protease inhibitors, oxalates, goitrogens and estrogens. Some of these factors interfere with the enzymes you need to digest protein. While a small amount of anti-nutrients would not likely cause a problem, the amount of soy that many Americans are now eating is extremely high.
3.Soy contains hem agglutinin.
Hem agglutinin is a clot-promoting substance that causes your red blood cells to clump together. These clumped cells are unable to properly absorb and distribute oxygen to your tissues.
4.Soy contains goitrogens
Goitrogens are substances that block the synthesis of thyroid hormones and interfere with iodine metabolism, thereby interfering with your thyroid function.
5.Soy contains phytates.
Phytates (phytic acid) bind to metal ions, preventing the absorption of certain minerals, including calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc — all of which are co-factors for optimal biochemistry in your body. This is particularly problematic for vegetarians, because eating meat reduces the mineral-blocking effects of these phytates (so it is helpful—if you do eat soy—to also eat meat).
6.Soy is loaded with the isoflavones genistein and daidzein
Isoflavones are a type of phytoestrogen, which is a plant compound resembling human estrogen. These compounds mimic and sometimes block the hormone estrogen, and have been found to have adverse effects on various human tissues. Soy phytoestrogens are known to disrupt endocrine function, may cause infertility, and may promote breast cancer in women.
Drinking even two glasses of soymilk daily for one month provides enough of these compounds to alter your menstrual cycle. Although the FDA regulates estrogen-containing products, no warnings exist on soy.
7.Soy has toxic levels of aluminum and manganese
Soybeans are processed (by acid washing) in aluminum tanks, which can leach high levels of aluminum into the final soy product. Soy formula has up to 80 times higher manganese than is found in human breast milk.
8.Soy infant formula puts your baby’s health at risk.
Nearly 20 percent of U.S. infants are now fed soy formula, but the estrogens in soy can irreversibly harm your baby’s sexual development and reproductive health. Infants fed soy formula take in an estimated five birth control pills’ worth of estrogen every day.
Infants fed soy formula have up to 20,000 times the amount of estrogen in circulation as those fed other formulas!
There is also the issue of pesticides and genetic modification.
Soy foods are both heavily sprayed with pesticides and genetically modified (GM). More than 80 percent of the soy grown in the United States is GM. And more than 90 percent of American soy crops are GM.
Since the introduction of GM foods in 1996, we’ve had an upsurge in low birth weight babies, infertility, and other problems in the U.S. population, and animal studies thus far have shown devastating effects from consuming GM soy.
You may want to steer clear of soy products for no other reason than a commitment to avoiding GM foods… unless you wish to be a lab animal for this massive uncontrolled experiment by the biotech industry.
There’s a discipline called extensive unbiased research that seeks the truth on everything. The major evil regarding food is Monsanto, none is worse, none is more protected. Isn’t it strange that such a harmful and diabolical corporation could have themselves categorized as a protected company able to do anything it wants no matter how harmful. This is what Obama did and sealed our fate into oblivion if it continues. Why any company or person would be allowed to destroy others and even themselves is beyond comprehension. Some very stupid people run things and Monsanto is completely insane in scope and in fact.
Glad I don’t live in the us and have access to organic soy.
I’m a small frame Caucasian women my doctor recommended me to take a calcium supplement . What are your thoughts? Would you recommend the same? If so what brand? Thanks for the article, I’ve heard that milk isn’t what we all have been taught to believe.
Thank you,
Go vegan with B12 supplements and you will be ok. All the info you need: https://vsh.org/videos.htm
Do you believe that the Reclast treatment (via intravenous ) is a good treatment for osteoarthritis? … I also take calcium tablets. I am scheduled for the Reclast treatment Aug 2 so would appreciate your comments as soon as possible. It is done once/year and I have had it done for 3 or 4 years, but in my opinion, it doesn’t seem to be helping much.
Hi, I was diagnosed with osteoporosis over 4 ys ago, was on Fosamax for 3 of thos yrs, and showed very little dif on my bd scan. so I came off that and tried a v-roic machine, a vibrating pad which you stand on for up to 20 mins a day, again, after a yr of this little diff on my bd scan, which is very low. so last yr I decided to try aclaxa, an infusion which lasts for a yr. no visible side effects, but wait with baited breath as to whether this has made any difference. I don’t eat meat, just fish, love dairy products and tofu.
What a load of crap. If any of this garbage info were true I’d b dead. Or atleast be a bag of jello
P.s. I agree milk isn’t good for you specifically and especially the mechanical milk quote on quote. But to say it draws calcium when it’s loaded with calcium? Sure the Internet says technically this and technically that. But didn’t you drink milk as a kid and realize you never broke a bone or even had a cavity because of it? And Matt you can reply any retort or Internet paraphrase you want it doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t draw. I don’t even drink milk because its unhealthy so it’s not like I’m on a side of a fence and bias.
Ps again LOL soy milk or almond milk is even worse you retard. Calcium carbonate is like oaster shells that is way worse for you. It’s like chalk for your body. Yu know nothing
Oh this was written by Vivian. Ok Vivian drink your chalk
Your comment is rude and totally out of place. If you have something to say, say it, don’t just shout your mouth off!
Your credibilty was lost when you chose to exhibit your ingnorance by using profanity and insults. Stick to expressing your opinion on a venue more suitable for your social intellect like twitter.
You are totally incorrect. Your abusive language I’m sure will leave many people thinking you are not only posting harmful, factually inaccurate content but are also of very poor character.
I am sorry to be so blunt: You can eat what you like and get as sick as you please, visit as many doctors as you can afford, stuff as much drugs into your body as you can tolerate and have as many heart attacks, strokes and cancers as you can survive, since I don’t share the same health system and therefore don’t have to pay for your ignorance. 🙂
So, wasn’t this all taken care of a few years back?
“However, scientific evidence does not support any of these claims. Milk and dairy products neither produce acid upon metabolism nor cause metabolic acidosis, and systemic pH is not influenced by diet. Observations of higher dairy product intake in countries with prevalent osteoporosis do not hold when urban environments are compared, likely due to physical labor in rural locations. Milk and other dairy products continue to be a good source of dietary protein and other nutrients.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22081694
People eat unhealthy processed food all the time, it doesn’t have to kill them to make them unhealthy. Same thing here.
WOW! If milk isn’t healthy for you, than what is? Because based on researched, many foods that we thought were healthy, are not. So why bother trying to eat healthy, and why bother trying to push healthy eating onto others?
Because people want to be healthy and prevent or get rid of ailments, is it that difficult to understand…
The author of this page has completely failed to understand the stud and the science. Drinking milk, from cows or anywhere else does not cause bone loss. Period.
The study identified that vitamin D is the key. Without enough vitamin D in the body we can’t absorb calcium properly. Older adults, according to the study, may spend less time in the sun and have a diminished ability to manufacture vitamin D in the skin, absorb vitamin D through the gut or convert vitamin D to it’s metabolically active form. The study also noted in northern latitudes, vitamin D production in the skin stops during the 4 months of winter. Presumably due to the diminished exposure to sun light?
Sun creams and lotions were also sighted as being responsible for limiting the production of vitamin D in the skin. Why? Well because they stop sun light penetrating the skin in a bid to stop cancer forming.
So what can we conclude? VITAMIN D is the key here people. Not milk.
oh so dose this explains why I (who lead a rather dangerous life) have NEVER gotten a broken bone. I have drunk processed milk for years I drank some today and will continue to do so. I personal think you lot are over reacting.
Individuals are all different. Because you happen to have strong bones does not mean the article is incorrect. We know that drinking lactation from other species is unhealthy (and frankly quite bizarre). We could argue forever as to why it’s bad and other causes of related illnesses, or we could all just stop consuming animals products and be healthier and save millions of animals from harm.
lol classic rebuttal, “I punch a wall everyday”, “I’ve lifted elephants my whole life”, “I jump off skyscrapers on my lunch hour”….just calm down. No one’s threatening you, just go back to your blissful dairy-filled life and pretend like none of this had ever happened. There, happy?
If you are drinking processed milk instead of RAW milk, you are an idiot.
How can you tell the difference?
It says on it,…… -.-
Or, you know…you are. Live and let live
Matt, I very much appreciate your input on this site, most importantly because all you were originally asking for from the elusive Vivian was to backup her claims with some solid sources. And she never could, only appeared a few times in the thread to respond to someone who supported her or to tell you that you can leave if you want, etc. I have to say I am not sold one way or the other at the moment as to whether milk is good or bad, I’ve just begun my research. So mostly I appreciate anyone who posts info and backs up what they have to say!
I’m drinking milk right now and there’s nothing you can do to stop me.
Well done. Everyone is really impressed by your comment.
Nobody was trying to stop you anyway; it’s your choice, just as it’s your choice if you want to take drugs, be a human canonball, headbutt a wasps nest… It’s totally up to you. Good luck with it all!
Definition of a badass.
Wow. The misinformation and childish hypocrisy here really makes me sick. First of all thank you very much Matt, for your efforts to try and foil this sad excuse of a harmful scam from possibly taking your money but more importantly your HEALTH. The idea that milk causes bone degeneration is FALSE! The first thing they taught in any higher level analytical class or lab teaches you that correlation does not imply causation; go look that up folks and you’ll see that these beliefs are a fine example of this fallacy. Read some actual studies done by independent non-profit organizations such as the most prestigious and trusted universities. Don’t forget to avoid the information bias that this article also leads you into such as stating many out of context and incomplete facts in the sense that they leave out vital information that would be included in any TRUSTWORTHY study such as the facts that milk does not cause metabolic acidosis as stated in the article and many misguided responses. Pretty much EVERY nutrient our bodies need to function cause the aforementioned acidity such as protein and fat, which are both in milk, AND which have their acidic effects neutralized by the nearly 300mg of organic and bioavailable calcium in a single serving of milk. Now by no means am I here to take sides, argue, or offend, I just want to stop people from possibly making a bad health mistake. If not drinking milk helped for you then keep on keepin’ on. But that doesn’t mean its good for everyone and as studies show, it is detrimental to most. As has been stated by the more well informed, positive effects may be due to other positive changes along with it, an allergy or intolerance, or a decrease in fat and cholesterol intake. I originally stumbled across this article and was naively fooled. After 4 months of no milk I noticed my teeth showing signs of decalcification and saw my nails nearly disintegrating. I had no idea what was wrong and the internet wasn’t helping because my milk intake was the only lifestyle change. I went to my doctor and he laughed and told me to drink more milk! And so I did. Guess what?! I’m all back to normal and the tooth and nail decay completely disappeared! So to me milk seems to be a very essential part of my and many other’s diets
And thanks again Matt, for helping me realize that this article is false and dealing with all the hypocritical hostility you had to receive just trying to spread the TRUTH! Whoever disagrees simply need to be reinformed by an ACTUAL professional and a few need to grow up a little bit as well.
Thank you very much for you post and helping to give some logic to the conversion. Could you please cite some of the studies you are referring to when you say:
“Read some actual studies done by independent non-profit organizations such as the most prestigious and trusted universities.”
I am trying to compile scientific research to effectively dispel the notion that milk is harmful to bone health.
All the best.
One study I found: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22081694
Will be doing more research (this article among them). It’s important to separate hype from facts. Not always easy – but important.
What many of you are not recognizing is that those studies that say that cows milk IS good for you, often have ulterior motives. The industry of cows milk is a billion dollar industry and there are plenty of those to support that and keep it that way, funding studies that push the idea that it is good for you is the best way to do that, and nothing new in this country. However what could the motives of independent research be for avoiding cows milk and the harm it may cause except that of improving our lives and new information for our health? Things change people, deal with it, new information and new technology and new studies happen all the time. Just because people have been drinking cows milk for a long time does not make it infallible to flaw, people began drinking the milk of other animals for survival purposes, for the lack of more food available, for fat and calories. But now there are plenty of resources for fat and calories. We no longer NEED cows milk!!! The fact that it can cause osteoporosis in people who drink it everyday was not a concern back then. Why is there still such a huge problem with osteoporosis in this country if everyone is drinking milk still? And as far as the studies done by huge and “trusted” universities, well I dont trust them at all, they are not independent enough. You do not know who funds those studies. The best we can really do is eat lots of whole plant based foods that are high in calcium. You cant go wrong by doing that. This is a good article, it has plenty of information and resources.Have any of you actually checked the resources? Open your mind and think with reason, cows are a different species, anyone who owns a pet and knows that you cannot treat it with the same medicine or feed it the same food as humans, should understand this concept. (dogs are an exception because they are scavengers) It is ok for you to drink milk, it wont kill you, and there is some nutrition in it, but it is not MADE FOR HUMANS, therefore long term consumption will lead to problems. Food directly from the earth is made for you. It’s as simple as that.
“The industry of cows milk is a billion dollar industry”
Who told you that?!
It is. I don’t thin you realize how many diffent farmers, then resellers, then stores make profit…
Are you really that naive??? )))
Try to remove ALL DAIRY CONTAINING FOOD FROM OUR SUPERMARKET SHELVES…
And I’m not talking just about milk, mayo, cream, yoghurt, butter but add to this cheese in all forms, ice cream, cereals, most bakery and potato chips even deli meats.. Most canned ready-made foods and chocolate…
DO WE NEED TO CONTINUE???
All of this negative protests against this article with name calling. Well, that’s typical of people with underlying anger issues of something, else. None of the professional scientists I ever knew resorted to name calling, and if any disagreed or questioned this article, were open just enough to spark enquiry for further research to see what else has been found. Non-profit organisations or universities doesn’t necessarily mean unflawed or prejudiciously skewed publications. Even some large corporations such as the milk industry have supported research in universities and colleges as well as there own labs. The one who claimed drinking plenty of milk all the time and still have strong bones and teeth, well, that’s questionable, unless you are consuming something which outweighs the negative impact. I think milk, especially cold, and not greater than 2% milk fat is delicious, but I stopped drinking it many years ago. Milk might be a tasty treat in different forms such as cheese, ice cream, creme freche, sherbert, etc, but each one’s own. I’m one of the ones who stays away from such consumption about 99% except for that 1% of the time it’s in some other food, and rarer as some of cold dairy form of treat which mainly because someone else purchased it. I will turn down milk though. I will eventually stay away 100% someday.
If milk isn’t healthy, what should we be drinking then?
Water…. -.-
People are just stupid to believe any of this and believe it when it defys logic. Like look at any study on what’s in soy milk that is calcium carbonate. That shits awful for you. Chalk goes to your brain. So when I see people name calling on the wrong side of this article I get angry. Absolute fools
You need to get your calcium via fruits and vegetables. Because they don’t have the negative side effect and acidity as dairy milk. Almond milk has protein and 50 percent more calcium if thats what you’re looking for. My teeth and nails look great. My bones thank me.
I have been vegan for 8 years now. My nails were brittle before but have been strong ever since I stopped consuming milk products. My teeth are reasonably ok, disintegrating only due to old age. I had constant borderline anemia all my life too which also disappeared when turning vegan. I do not take calcium supplements either, only extra D and B12.
If you are needing milk to renew your nails and teeth, that’s a sign that your body is now dependent on milk. See how people deal with tobacco withdrawal. Also, your doctor is curing symptoms not the disease.
Are you saying milk IS healthy? Please prove this or go away.
Now who’s the one without the evidence to back up their dubious statements??!
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/
https://rense.com/general63/milkmyth.htm
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/GuidanceRegulation/UCM291757.pdf Pages 216-217
215-216*
Correlation does not imply causation, very good young chap! You took psychology 101, you must be proud. Speaking of biased research funding, who do you think has been funding all the pro milk research? None other than the Nation Dairy Board (NDB) and the Nation Fluid Milk Board (FMB). By the way you write here one would guess that you have an open mind yet you have openly contradicted the very points you emphasize. Why don’t you do a little more research bud? And by the way, have you ever heard of the placebo effect? hahahaha, good luck with your nails.
I think a few of these people should read books like ‘The great cholesterol
con’ by Anthony Colpo and some of the other related books. They will then find out how the big companies have been conning the public for many, many years.
I just want to know what countries were said to have high amounts of osteoporosis that corresponded to high milk consumption before I make a statement. Thank you.
America has the highest rates of osteoporosis verses 3rd world countries (where osteoporosis is nearly obsolete) that do not consume even a fraction of what America does in dairy products i.e. milk.
America also drives a lot more cars and has much higher fat content in our diet. Perhaps these are the cause of the higher rate of osteopororis… or our sedentary lifestyle, that does nothing to strengthen our bones. Correlation does not imply cause.
Read the book “Proof Positive” by Niel Nedley if you want to know about which countries have highest incidence of dairy consumption with the increase of osteoporosis.
For those that claim this is pseudo science need to visit not milk where there is extensive links to decades if science linking the consumption if dairy to a pleather of diseases.
The very simple fact is we are not cows and cows milk is for cows, digs milk for dogs, rats milk for rats and so on.
I have a friend whose cured his diabetes from giving up dairy I gave up dairy four years ago and lost 65lbs with no effort. My health has improved, my skin looks great and even though I’m 38 this year people are convinced I’m in my 20’s. I got ID’d the other for a lottery ticket because she wouldn’t believe I was over 25!
As the saying goes the proof is in the pudding 😉
I think we all need to wake up and see that as a whole, we have been fed lies that are killing us. Almost anything bought from a grocery store is processed, contains harmful additives, and/or is genetically modified. There is good reason why the “science” generally points to cow’s milk as something healthy and safe; look at how much money would be lost if we learned the truth! It doesn’t take scientific studies to have the common sense that the nutritional needs of a 100 lb baby cow who will grow to 1,000 lbs is far different from the needs of a human. Also, why do humans feel the need to drink milk past infanthood? It doesn’t seem natural! If available, how many of us would purchase human milk for consumption as adults? If you say no to that, then why drink the milk from a mama cow?? I think we’ve all been sheep, falling prey to the cute “Got Milk?” ads and the assumption that the FDA has our best interest at heart. And I won’t even go into the argument that dairy cows are treated so poorly (as are all commercial farm animals). When there are delicious and healthy alternatives available, why would we harm an animal just to drink an inferior product that may actually be harmful to us, and that common sense tells us, is not made for humans?
This is a ridiculous statement! Dairy producers are paid based on fluid milk production…so WHY on earth would they harm the animals that are paying the bills? I would recommend you go visit some dairy farms (especially privately owned operations) and take some time to understand the industry.
That’s about as ignorant as it gets. I suggest you try to get access to anywhere that practices animal cruelty and see if they let you in. Obviously not all farmers are like that but there are some major ones out there.
Darling please watch “Earthlings”, if you have guts to watch it…
The OVERWHELMING scientific and medical consensus concludes that milk, when consumed in daily moderate daily amounts, has a positive overall benefit for the health and well-being in adults and children.
-Science
Can you please cite your references?
All the best!
The overwhelming bullshit you just spewed out and then claimed “-science” is a reference… fail.
I love that, we should just stop citing our sources altogether and just end everything with “-Science”
Vivian,
You recommend yogurt, sour cream, buttermilk or any other form of fermented dairy products.
I take almond milk, as you recommended in your book, but I cannot drink yogurt or fermented dairy. For many years I had very little milk or cheese. I did not like them much. Now, I love cheese, but I had decided to avoid it for a while or had very little with some alkalizing foods.
My question: Do we really need to eat yogurt? Can we find any replacements other than fermented ones?
Is there another way of boosting your calcium to make up for all we miss if we do not eat yogurt, buttermilk or sour cream. I cannot even type the word “sour”. 🙂
Thanks for all your recommendations.
Dora
Dora, when I recommend a particular food or highlight its bone-healthy benefits, it doesn’t mean you have to eat that food. 🙂 There are all kinds of healthful choices of foods in the Program; there’s no need to “force” yourself to eat yogurt!
The comment that calves STOP drinking milk & humans STOP nursing therefore we should not drink milk is silly. Other animals don’t plant veggies or fruit & grind wheat for bread, so should we STOP doing that as well? Eat grass every day? Or bugs & dirty water?
Today in the Western world we have too many food choices & we have to use our brains & have some self control. Eating too many calories is the main problem.
Bottom line seems to be there is little evidence to support milk being good or bad for you. Some feel better drinking milk, some feel better removing it from their diet. Same with meat, gluten, sugar – control your portions & research a healthy diet that works for you.
This guy read like 1 line then skimmed threw the rest and now thinks he’s an expert on what evidence is around and what’s fact. Haha epic.
If a person reads through all these comments and buys vivian’s book they will get what they deserve, a book, a slimmer wallet, and nothing else. Thank goodness for those who have written to contradict her psuedo-science and in doing so save many from falling victim to her nonsense. She will still make money from the few who want to believe the lie she puts forth, but at least there will be fewer than she may have otherwise. Thank you Matt and all the others who have donated their time and effort into providing the public with information which can help them make an intelligent decision. It’s been said a sucker is born every minute, it’s nice to know that there are also people who are willing to try and save the hapless sucker from falling prey to those lying in wait for them, such as Vivian does.
Happy hunting Vivian! I’m sure you are laughing all the way to the bank.
That’s rather cynical response? I have an open mind on this subject and I’m type 2 diabetic, but I’m willing to try going without milk (I drink skimmed milk)for a few days.
Even skimmed milk has a high concentration of sugar so perhaps I’ll benefit anyway, regardless of the calcium debate.
If milk is good or not, there are no clear studies to give a right answer, but there are just some ipothesis. So if milk is acidifying animal protein and it is neutralized of calcium borrows from bones, then what happens with the calcium from the milk? It is there just to neutralize nothing? If if contains calcium, then it neutralize the acid from milk. It’s weird.
I went to the dairy farm, and they showed me how they produce milk.it seems fine to me. before drinking milk, I used to have really weak bones. after drinking it, my legs became stronger. but that was for awhile. now, i realized that my lest backbone is broken, and i cant sit too long now. any suggestions, Vivian?
Hi Vivian, I read somewhere before about why we should not drink milk, I remembered it says that it seems to build up the bones when you were young, but it will eventually take the calcium away from you. I became lactose in-tolerant right after given birth to my children and I have been staying with Non-GMO soy milk since then, I felt great! I believe it’s better for us to listen to our body and follow the nature’s way, calf stoped drinking milk after a couple month, why should we drink? There are lot of things scientists haven’t found out yet, the best way is to choose the nature’s way.
Calves stop drinking milk after a couple of months? What LAME article did you read to come up with that jibberish?
A cow will drink from its mother until it is as big as she is if you don’t pull it off of her. I KNOW this because I lived on a farm.
Processed milk is poison.
RAW milk saved my life!!!
That’s ALL you need to know about milk.
“That’s all you need to know about milk.” Ignorant people like you ruin any argument you support, because of the fact that your close minded and even when smacked in the face with truth will say “NO NO THATS IMPOSSIBLE FAKE FAKE, ETC.”
My parent always had a cow or two and we had plenty of dairy ALWAYS… I had my first tooth filling when i was still at school and I suffered with acne a lot!
Now 15 years later i have stopped eating dairy and my skin has improved so much, i can not believe my eyes…
“Nowadays, milking cows are given antibiotics and most are also injected with a genetically engineered form of bovine growth hormone (rBGH). A man-made or synthetic hormone used to artificially increase milk production…”
The above statement is false regarding the dairy industry. Growth hormone (a protein hormone) is naturally made hormone found in cattle. Because it is a protein hormone the animal breaks it down into AMINO ACIDS (the building blocks of proteins) and then utilizes the amino acids accordingly. Humans do the same thing.
Humans are the only mammalian species that will continue to consume milk into adulthood because we (or most of us) have the proper enzymes to break down milk. That is LACTASE. Also, the development of a calf’s digestive system changes significantly as it matures. That is, the rumen becomes fully functional and ruminants can utilize other protein and carbohydrate sources to meet their energy requirements that humans (monogastrics) cannot.
Hope this sheds a little light on this discussion.
Jessica we don’t all carry the enzyme Lactase to digest the lactose in milk.
I agree with Rick on the RAW milk. I’ve switched to it and love it. Not only the taste, but the fact that i know its full of good bacteria and enzymes that haven’t been destroyed by the Pasteurization process.
People having difficulty digesting Lactose should try Raw milk, they might find it much easier to digest as the necessary enzymes haven’t been destroyed!
THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE. THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC ARTICLE THAT EXPLAINS WHY THE METABOLIC ACIDOSIS IS TOTAL GARBAGE. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22081694
That study addresses the pH balance in urine samples. The argument for dairy being bad for bones is about the pH balance of blood, that dairy acidifies blood and calcium is leached from the bones to neutralize it. So it’s apples and oranges.
The very thing you said the empirical study lacks is actually addressed, even in the abstract! By comparing international demographics and lifestyles the results from the study Lily posted suggest a lack of any significant correlation between dairy consumption frequency and systemic acidity. Guess what, blood is apart of our system, therefore a lack of any significant correlation between dairy consumption frequency and blood PH also exists buddy. The fact that this “Vivian” person wants “her” readers to heavily focus their dietary efforts on battling acidosis and alkalosis, when our systemic regulation (Homeostasis) does this anyways for free through bi-lipid membrane chemical filtering and chemical buffers that secrete and absorb free H+ ion’s, proves that this “author” isn’t a scientist nor a doctor with any integrity. How obvious of a con attempt this “save our bones program” truly is!!! Waste of time, money, effort, and potentially causes more systemic harm than if you were to have done nothing to your diet at all.
I don’t know about the rest of the world, but here in the uk the difference between a nutritionist and a dietitian is that a certified dietitian (i. e. a person with legal right to call themselves a dietitian) is required by law to only give up-to-date information founded in science. Nutritionists, on the other hand, are not hindered by those pesky facts, nor do they need any qualification at all to assume the title of a nutritionist.
I see Ms Goldschmidt sporting a Masters of Arts in Nutritional Sciences and Biochemistry, and I get suspicious of her claims on the subject of milk. Because, yes, they’re counter-intuitive.
She may be right. She may be wrong. All I’m saying is take it with a grain of salt, and if you really care about your milk intake, do some research beyond one online article, and if you can afford it, see a proper dietitian.
If you’re wondering, my knowledge of the nutritionist/dietitian dichotomy comes from a close friend who is a student of Dietetics at King’s College of London. Let me also reiterate: I don’t know if this holds true for the rest of the world. I’m not going to check. If you assumed it is without checking, nothing will change your mind. If you assumed it’s not – your mind is equally made up. If, however, you wish to verify that information before you decide, I congratulate you on the flexibility of your mind. You might get it right someday.
tl;dr: don’t believe something just because it’s written down. Don’t refute something just because it’s contrary to what you’ve been hearing your whole life. Do your own research.
Thank you sir!!! I’m glad to see some people still alive who use their brain for critical analysis!!! Yes, this “Vivian” person isn’t even an M.D. or P.H.D. so why do I care at all?
As if she is the only one, or even the first to bring this information to light….
I urge you to research Dr Weston A price, his scientific research refutes most of what you have stated on this page. Weston A Price, was a dentist who went on a mission to find out why some people suffer from caries, while remote indigenous groups seem to go unaffected from tooth decay. His research and studies have proven to be an effective natural cure for tooth decay and bone density loss. He encourages meals rich in animal fats, protein and of course MILK. I know for a fact his principles work, as since adopting a diet rich in dairy, protein and vegetables I have effectively cured two decayed teeth. After reading your claims I simply find it would have been impossible for me to cure teeth from decay if your claims about milk are in fact correct. Please supply some scientific evidence. The china study simply does not suffice, without evidence your thoughts are just words on a page that are spreading untruths to vulnerable people on the internet.
You say that milk in your twenties correlated to more fractures and weaker bones in later years. That’s interesting. However, research has also shown that highly trained distance runners (i run for a D1 school), have higher density bones and hips than any other sport (the continuous slight “pounding” stimulates the bones to increase in mineral density).
So while you are petrified of milk, how about this; i drink lots of milk, and i’m willing to bet that my bones are a lot stronger than yours and will be in the future.
So while you sit on the couch scared of milk.
I’ll raise my glass and say “cheers milk, cheers”.
Yeah, I’m the same, I drink heaps of milk and I have torn many ligaments in my body, and have done lots of probably ‘bone breaking’ accidents. Yet I have never broken a single bone in my body, haven’t even fractured any of them.
That’s not even remotely relevant… as said above people smoke cigs for 80+ years and live, but there not fucking healthy..
so???? my gradpa smokes 3 packs of cigarrates a day…and he is 89 ..so , shd we cosider cigarrates as healthy??? what a lame comment
Thank God almighty that I read this. And all this time we were buying the lie that milk is good for us. I don’t even use cosmetics anymore, they do more bad than good.
Its a harsh reallity to wake up and finally see that everything you believed to be true is a big lie.
This article helped me on my speech i had to write for my L.A. class which had the topic name, ”Is it wrong to eat animal products such as milk and eggs” Thanks! i hope my friends understand me now and my point of view. 😀
A study makes the claim that areas in which people drink the most milk also show the highest occurrence of osteoporosis. This is easily explained by the fact that in these countries, like the U.S.A., people eat a lot of meat and other processed foods which contain a lot of protein and create an acidic environment, which leads to removal of calcium from bones. It is not wise to make the assumption that milk is responsible for the higher occurrence of osteoporosis.
Great article. One question I have is should you still try and get plant calcium? I am 48 and was diagnosed with osteoprosis this year. I take mineral supplements as well as magneisum ect. I also juice kale and other dark green vegetables 2 times a day. On top of that I drink almond milk with a vitamin D. What else can I do to strenghten my bones. Tried fosomax for 2 months before I knew any better. Ended up with mouth sores that are finally starting to subside. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I’m an on and off milk drinker. Last year I didn’t drink much, and you know what? I suffered 3 foot fractures during that year.
Haven’t had a single once since the 3rd one, and I had started to drink milk again.
After reading all these garbage comments and the article as well, unfortunately I don’t see any evidence to support or disprove the claims made in the article.
The simple fact that the author could not provide solid links to published studies on this made me think that it’s all a bullshit front just to sell books. I’ve seen it before, this is not the first time.
So unless there is solid evidence that the author can show all of us, then I will continue to drink milk until I die.
Kris, here is some links for you:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/
with studies:
References
1. Osteoporosis: fast facts. National Osteoporosis Foundation. Accessed January 24, 2008. 2. Owusu W, Willett WC, Feskanich D, Ascherio A, Spiegelman D, Colditz GA. Calcium intake and the incidence of forearm and hip fractures among men. J Nutr. 1997; 127:1782–87. 3. Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Public Health. 1997; 87:992–97.
4. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Dawson-Hughes B, Baron JA, et al. Calcium intake and hip fracture risk in men and women: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies and randomized controlled trials. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007; 86:1780–90.
5. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Willett WC, Wong JB, Giovannucci E, Dietrich T, Dawson-Hughes B. Fracture prevention with vitamin D supplementation: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. JAMA. 2005; 293:2257–64.
6. Boonen S, Lips P, Bouillon R, Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Vanderschueren D, Haentjens P. Need for additional calcium to reduce the risk of hip fracture with vitamin D supplementation: evidence from a comparative meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007; 92:1415–23.
7. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Dawson-Hughes B, Willett WC, et al. Effect of vitamin D on falls: a meta-analysis. JAMA. 2004; 291:1999–2006.
8. Weber P. Vitamin K and bone health. Nutrition. 2001; 17:880–87.
9. Feskanich D, Weber P, Willett WC, Rockett H, Booth SL, Colditz GA. Vitamin K intake and hip fractures in women: a prospective study. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999; 69:74–79.
10. Booth SL, Tucker KL, Chen H, et al. Dietary vitamin K intakes are associated with hip fracture but not with bone mineral density in elderly men and women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000; 71:1201–08.
11. Booth SL, Broe KE, Gagnon DR, et al. Vitamin K intake and bone mineral density in women and men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003; 77(2):512-16.
12. Tucker KL, Morita K, Qiao N, Hannan MT, Cupples LA, Kiel DP. Colas, but not other carbonated beverages, are associated with low bone mineral density in older women: the Framingham Osteoporosis Study. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006; 84:936–42.
13. Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Protein consumption and bone fractures in women. Am J Epidemiol. 1996; 143:472–79.
14. Manson JE, Hsia J, Johnson KC, et al. Estrogen plus progestin and the risk of coronary heart disease. N Engl J Med. 2003; 349:523–34.
15. Genkinger JM, Hunter DJ, Spiegelman D, et al. Dairy products and ovarian cancer: a pooled analysis of 12 cohort studies. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2006; 15:364–72.
16. Ganmaa D, Sato A. The possible role of female sex hormones in milk from pregnant cows in the development of breast, ovarian, and corpus uteri cancers. Med Hypotheses. 2005; 65:1028–37.
17. World Cancer Research Fund, American Institute for Cancer Research. Food, nutrition, physical activity, and the prevention of cancer: a global perspective. Washington DC: AICR, 2007.
18. Giovannucci E, Rimm EB, Wolk A, et al. Calcium and fructose intake in relation to risk of prostate cancer. Cancer Res. 1998; 58:442–447.
19. Giovannucci E, Liu Y, Platz EA, Stampfer MJ, Willett WC. Risk factors for prostate cancer incidence and progression in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study. International Journal of Cancer. 2007; 121:1571–78.
20. Larsson SC, Bergkvist L, Rutegard J, Giovannucci E, Wolk A. Calcium and dairy food intakes are inversely associated with colorectal cancer risk in the Cohort of Swedish Men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006; 83:667–73; quiz 728–29.
21. Cho E, Smith-Warner SA, Spiegelman D, et al. Dairy foods, calcium, and colorectal cancer: a pooled analysis of 10 cohort studies. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2004; 96:1015–22.
22. Martinez ME, Willett WC. Calcium, vitamin D, and colorectal cancer: a review of the epidemiologic evidence. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers. Prev 1998; 7:163–68.
23. Hyman J, Baron JA, Dain BJ, et al. Dietary and supplemental calcium and the recurrence of colorectal adenomas. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 1998; 7:291–95.
24. Dickinson HO, Nicolson DJ, Cook JV, et al. Calcium supplementation for the management of primary hypertension in adults. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006:CD004639.
25. Cappuccio FP, Elliott P, Allender PS, Pryer J, Follman DA, Cutler JA. Epidemiologic association between dietary calcium intake and blood pressure: a meta-analysis of published data. Am J Epidemiol. 1995; 142:935–45.
26. Bolland MJ, Avenell A, Baron JA, Grey A, MacLennan GS, Gamble GD, Reid IR. Effect of calcium supplements on risk of myocardial infarction and cardiovascular events: meta-analysis. BMJ. 2010; 341:c3691. doi: 10.1136/bmj.c3691.
1. Osteoporosis: fast facts. National Osteoporosis Foundation. Accessed January 24, 2008.
2. Owusu W, Willett WC, Feskanich D, Ascherio A, Spiegelman D, Colditz GA. Calcium intake and the incidence of forearm and hip fractures among men. J Nutr. 1997; 127:1782–87.
3. Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Public Health. 1997; 87:992–97.
4. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Dawson-Hughes B, Baron JA, et al. Calcium intake and hip fracture risk in men and women: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies and randomized controlled trials. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007; 86:1780–90.
5. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Willett WC, Wong JB, Giovannucci E, Dietrich T, Dawson-Hughes B. Fracture prevention with vitamin D supplementation: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. JAMA. 2005; 293:2257–64.
6. Boonen S, Lips P, Bouillon R, Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Vanderschueren D, Haentjens P. Need for additional calcium to reduce the risk of hip fracture with vitamin D supplementation: evidence from a comparative meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007; 92:1415–23.
7. Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Dawson-Hughes B, Willett WC, et al. Effect of vitamin D on falls: a meta-analysis. JAMA. 2004; 291:1999–2006.
8. Weber P. Vitamin K and bone health. Nutrition. 2001; 17:880–87.
9. Feskanich D, Weber P, Willett WC, Rockett H, Booth SL, Colditz GA. Vitamin K intake and hip fractures in women: a prospective study. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999; 69:74–79.
10. Booth SL, Tucker KL, Chen H, et al. Dietary vitamin K intakes are associated with hip fracture but not with bone mineral density in elderly men and women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000; 71:1201–08.
11. Booth SL, Broe KE, Gagnon DR, et al. Vitamin K intake and bone mineral density in women and men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003; 77(2):512-16.
12. Tucker KL, Morita K, Qiao N, Hannan MT, Cupples LA, Kiel DP. Colas, but not other carbonated beverages, are associated with low bone mineral density in older women: the Framingham Osteoporosis Study. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006; 84:936–42.
13. Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Protein consumption and bone fractures in women. Am J Epidemiol. 1996; 143:472–79.
14. Manson JE, Hsia J, Johnson KC, et al. Estrogen plus progestin and the risk of coronary heart disease. N Engl J Med. 2003; 349:523–34.
15. Genkinger JM, Hunter DJ, Spiegelman D, et al. Dairy products and ovarian cancer: a pooled analysis of 12 cohort studies. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2006; 15:364–72.
16. Ganmaa D, Sato A. The possible role of female sex hormones in milk from pregnant cows in the development of breast, ovarian, and corpus uteri cancers. Med Hypotheses. 2005; 65:1028–37.
17. World Cancer Research Fund, American Institute for Cancer Research. Food, nutrition, physical activity, and the prevention of cancer: a global perspective. Washington DC: AICR, 2007.
18. Giovannucci E, Rimm EB, Wolk A, et al. Calcium and fructose intake in relation to risk of prostate cancer. Cancer Res. 1998; 58:442–447.
19. Giovannucci E, Liu Y, Platz EA, Stampfer MJ, Willett WC. Risk factors for prostate cancer incidence and progression in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study. International Journal of Cancer. 2007; 121:1571–78.
20. Larsson SC, Bergkvist L, Rutegard J, Giovannucci E, Wolk A. Calcium and dairy food intakes are inversely associated with colorectal cancer risk in the Cohort of Swedish Men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006; 83:667–73; quiz 728–29.
21. Cho E, Smith-Warner SA, Spiegelman D, et al. Dairy foods, calcium, and colorectal cancer: a pooled analysis of 10 cohort studies. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2004; 96:1015–22.
22. Martinez ME, Willett WC. Calcium, vitamin D, and colorectal cancer: a review of the epidemiologic evidence. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers. Prev 1998; 7:163–68.
23. Hyman J, Baron JA, Dain BJ, et al. Dietary and supplemental calcium and the recurrence of colorectal adenomas. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 1998; 7:291–95.
24. Dickinson HO, Nicolson DJ, Cook JV, et al. Calcium supplementation for the management of primary hypertension in adults. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006:CD004639.
25. Cappuccio FP, Elliott P, Allender PS, Pryer J, Follman DA, Cutler JA. Epidemiologic association between dietary calcium intake and blood pressure: a meta-analysis of published data. Am J Epidemiol. 1995; 142:935–45.
26. Bolland MJ, Avenell A, Baron JA, Grey A, MacLennan GS, Gamble GD, Reid IR. Effect of calcium supplements on risk of myocardial infarction and cardiovascular events: meta-analysis. BMJ. 2010; 341:c3691. doi: 10.1136/bmj.c3691.
And the conclusion? I haven’t the time to research all the links but I think you deserve credit for your research.
And, with special dedication for your “strong bones”, don’t be a hypocrite and watch this from one end to the other:
https://earthlings.com/?page_id=32
And, cruelty free (better!) sources of Calcium:
https://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/calcium.aspx
It’s so sad to see all of these conformists. instead of researching and finding out for themselves they want others to do it for them. After so much research I came to the same conclusion as you. It was devastating because I am a milk lover. But like you I was able to substitute. I am finally able to truly say we are what we eat. We are organic human beings who for some reason substituted the organic for the processed. Thank you for this information
Hi Vivian, It seems you have time to respond to people who naively agree with your claims based on anecdotal experience, you swoop down on them like a hawk to prey. So since you are active again, could you please post links to the studies / research / trials in place / Scientific hypothesis / ANYTHING? That would qualify ANY of the very bold claims you are making, another bullshit self sourced scientific Frankenstein article would not be substantial enough so please be clear and concise with your sources, or any of the counter arguments you would like to lay against my claims. Even my claims of you being a fraudulent ass hole with the sole intention of misleading people who are not of any scientific background, scare them and take their money.
I double dare you to put a counter argument in for the latter, as I have a whole host of ammunition waiting for you.
Looking forward to your reply.
Matt
Matt,
I just want to comment, since you are still commenting, that your arguments would be more credible to me if you could express them without profanity. It is not necessary. I’m sure you are an intelligent person and can surely comment without calling people obscene names and using inappropriate adjectives. IF what you say is true, perhaps you should consider stating it without the profanity. When I start reading profanity, I stop reading. It offends me. If you really want to help people, make them want to read what you have to say instead of turning them away.
Now, what Vivian said intrigued me, but the fact that you are disputing it so vigorously makes me want to do further research of my own. I’ve always been taught not to take what others say as fact until I read or research for myself. There is almost always a “hidden agenda,” although the fact that Vivian’s book is advertised on this page is not very “hidden.”
Matt, you ae disgusting!!
Matt, stop using those curse words and as much as you may think you are super knowledgeable in science, using such filthy language will undermine any credibility that you might have. In science we present our opinion in a clean way. You would have quoted your sources that show milk is a super food instead of attacking Vivian with those pathetic insults.
Nice reply. We all want to get to the truth to benefit the community.
I’m going to believe my physician far over some one with a masters of arts degree. I am Vivian, please site your sources then maybe we can talk
Dear Kyle,
She has a Masters in NUTRITION HEATLH. Did you know doctors barely study nutrition in medical School In fact they don’t study it in undergrad, nor do they study it in medical school, at all. They wouldn’t even be able to tell you which food helps with inflammatory problems. Doctors are doctors of MEDICINE. They only know how to treat conditions with pills. But if you would like to continually believe those brain washed ideas of your, go right ahead. It’s your health, not mine.
Mary
Dear Mary
With your statement “They only know how to treat conditions with pills.”
You obviously lack the knowledge about how it is like to study medicine and be a doctor.
and
“They wouldn’t even be able to tell you which food helps with inflammatory problems.” You just have to go to the right doctor. I believe you know it already but let me just remind you, there are different kinds of doctors.
Just because one’s belief is different than yours, it doesn’t mean they are “brainwashed ideas”.
Sincerly, An M.D for 14 years.
Research how many hours of nutrition a doctor takes while studying. Hint. Its almost none.
Do why would you think they know more about it than the average person?
Not too long ago doctors were recommending camel cigarettes to their patients. So don’t take everything a doctor says as gospell. Like the post says, they are good at treating certain conditions.
You are an idiot. Don’t LISTEN to anyone but do your own research and read studies. The China Study for example.
Why so rude? Calm down. Its just peoples opinions. Your the one making a fool of yourself by calling everybody an idiot. Its hard for people to believe this when there’s no actual concrete evidence. You don’t have to get mad.
The china study is a bunch of BS, No one will duplicate it because its crap.
Pseudoscience poopycock
I bet you’re a typical ”won’t read a study, only makes assumptions” type of person. Good luck with that.
I bet you’re one of those people who read one “out of the norm” article and believe everything in it.
Thanks Matt for helping to show that this person is a poor excuses for a human being and is just trying to sell a product by telling lies. She obviously knows nothing or would be able to counter your arguments with some scientific backing
She is right, but you go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
Is it just me, or do some of these post smack of dairy industry sponsored posts poorly disguised ?
Dear Dr. Vivian Goldschmidt, Our family is grateful for the information you have shared with us. I have passed on your words of wisdom to my email list of people who want the truth about how they can maintain a healthy body. With all of the research I have been doing on the subject of ‘food’s connection to a healthy body,’ I am doing my best to inform others who have been given misinformation over the years by the advertisement industry that represents mega corporation related to factory farming and the dairy industry. I am optimistic that through the use of the internet, that we can help each other counteract the misinformation we see on television, radio, magazines and the newspapers. Thank you so very much. Stuart Wisong
Stuart, thank you for your kind words (although I am not a doctor! ;)). It’s so good to know that others are spreading the word.
I suspect you are right. In my case,I was in dialysis for 12 years (1998 to 2010). I then had two parathyroid surgeries to remove my parathyroids(2001 and 2008). They did not succeed. I got a kidney transplant in 2010 and of course, my doctor reccomanded I take Fosamax. I did for 3 years and made sure I took calcium tablets plus consumed milk-based products and Vitamin D. My bone density shows a decrease. He now reccommands I take Prolia injections! I do not bebieve in that medication. My question is, can I still keep what is left of my calcium if I take no bisfosfamate and follow your directions. I hear Vitamin K is important. Looking forward to hear from you. Thank you.
Bensimon, I am sorry you’ve gotten the drug “run around.” Good for you for doing your research, though! You’ve come to the right place. 🙂 Here is a list of articles I’ve written on bisphosphonates that should help you get started in your research:
https://saveourbones.com/bisphosphonates-double-the-risk-of-esophageal-cancer/
https://saveourbones.com/fosamax-alendronate/
https://saveourbones.com/yet-another-good-reason-to-avoid-osteoporosis-drugs/
https://saveourbones.com/new-year-off-to-a-bad-start-for-osteoporosis-drugs/
https://saveourbones.com/fosamax-alendronate/
I do hope this helps!
MATT = Dairy Industry plant/ Udder-sucking addict.
I’m a 26 year old personal trainer and Nutritional Therapist with a passion against fraudulant people providing misinformation to sell a dodgy product to people looking for help with serious ailments, especially when the misinformation provided puts people at risk of permanent disfigurment. Has the author refuted anyof my claims? Laid any counter arguments? No. Because “she” doesent havea legto stand on and knows it. Go backto your 9/11 conspiracy forums and tweak your tinfoil hat some more. They ARE listening to your thougts.
You’re discrediting yourself Matt. Lay off the desperate attempts to attack your opponent with ad hominems.
I’m not waging a debate here, I could’nt care any less how “credited” my arguments are, google the info and see which one is based in scientific evidence. Thats all the credit I need, and also there was absolutely no desperation in retort. I’m just sick of this site, I’ll nip back here and there to try and stop these fraudulent ass holes posing under the guide of “Vivian” misleading people, riipping them off and injuring them. But if people dont want to believe what I have to say, thats fine. I really have done my best. I’ll call a stick a stick, and a moron a moron. And the guy who originaly posted that i responded too is a Moron. Let alone probably “Vivan” just posting under a false account to try and save the reputation of this little scam site as much as possible.
What a ridiculose comment, you throw around “ad hominem” at me!? I provide my credentials, and my motives in my post.
So Lets look at the initial post I was replying to:
“MATT = Dairy Industry plant/ Udder-sucking addict.”
It doesen’t seem to me this attack was founded in any reason or logic whatsoever, and is exactly an “ad hominem” attack on my character founded in 0 information. So all your are highlighting is your own bias.
Thanks.
If this were true why am I like 6 foot tall. Its really hard to believe this when I’ve been drinking milk my entire life. Not once have I ever broken a bone. I’m very active as well and like to play sports and there was times I though I had broken bones from a fall or from just doing something wrong in the process. My bones are apparently titanium because I get back up as if nothing ever happened. I will keeping drinking milk :). Not that I think any of the information you put on here is interesting. Its just that ots hard to believe what you say when I have consumed milk my entire life and I’m 110 percent healthy.
You’re just an idiot. Read the China study if you are capapble to understand.
I’m an idiot for true facts of my personal physique???? I’m pretty sure I’m not stupid. Why do you have to be rude. Just my opinion. Chill.
there is much more scientific evidence against the china study then for it..don’t just believe the first thing you read
Matt, you need a girlfriend (or boyfriend). All this time spent on debunking a milk “myth” shows me that you need to get some, buddy, and I’m not talking about cow’s milk. My God, man, move on to something else, please.
I have a girlfriend, she’s really hot. I was going to pick your argument apart and use your ridiculous “Smarter than you” name against you in a witty retort. However I AM growing tired of the levels of stupidity on this page, as my only goal is to save innocent people money and health. So I’m going for the concise approach.
Go Fuck yourself, you are an assumptive moron.
Fin.
Matt it’s not too late yet. I thought about this saying: Where there is smoke, there’s fire. Remember that cigarettes were perfectly fine, healthy even and asbestos was safe!!!! It’s unbelievable what people are willing to do for money. Disgusting.
scientific evidence is all you need? then watch “Forks over knives” and enjoy…)))
Bullshit, all you are doing is selling your book.
You are confused but it’s mostly not your fault. You are locked in a Victorian nutritional box and when you say “milk”, you are obviously talking about the “preheated mechanically processed white liquid produced by big mammals confined in a crowded ghetto”. I call this one an “industrial milk”. I will never ever drink any industrial milk.
Real milk is very different. I come from Central Europe and know the old customs (100+ years) re milk. 1st of all, milk comes from cows eating grass. Only fresh milk (almost immediately after drawing) was drank, any older stuff was left to sour. Milk was not pasteurised or homogenised. Fresh milk was for children and physically active adults.
I’m drinking milk, fresh real milk, here and there, not overdoing it. My milk is from cows, goats and sheep.
(BTW, real human saliva HAS healing properties, not sure about saliva of people eating industrial food. To “lick one’s wounds” did not originate out of the blue)
Cheers
What you just said is completely stupid and wrong. First of all, milk gets superheated to kill bacteria, which has minimum impact on nutrition. Second, it is passed through a fine mesh to make the fat curdles smaller, so that they don’t collect at the top. And finally, it gets vitamin D added at the end. That’s it. Now, look at the processing almond “milk” goes through.
Also, lysozymes in human saliva are present regardless of the diet, as they are encoded by our genes. So you’re wrong there as well.
What process does almond milk go through? I soak almonds, then grind them up with water in a blender, then drink it. That seems like a very minimal amount of processing to me. That’s way less processing than most milk goes through.
Fact is that milk depletes calcium from our bones.
hello everyone,
not used to commenting on websites etc but here goes.
im from the UK and stumbled on this website by chance whilst researching fat loss ideas.i first became interested in going dairy free when i watched a video on youtube of a guy by the name Robert Cohen all about why milk or dairy is bad for your health.by the time i got to the end of the video i realised there could be some truth in what he said so i decided to give it a try.i went dairy free in may 2012 so its 11 mths down the line and im loving every minute of it and heres why, im nearly 51 yrs old and after changing my attitude to what i put in my body and working out almost every day the fat has just dropped off and i can now see my abs for the first time in over 30 yrs.after the first 4 to 6 weeks my cravings for junk food dissapered and all i snack on now is mixed fruit,nuts & dates etc and my fat loss is still going.one of the most notable changes was my bowel movement.i used to go 4 or 5 days before i would have a movement and i would always strain to push it out but now its every 1 to 2 days and it just slides out with no problem every time.these big changes to my health got my partner interested and now she has been dairy free for 8mths and its pretty much the same story for her.she would usually go 5 to 7 days for a bowel movement and when it came out it was small round balls, but now its mostly every day with full size stools and shes amazed.she used to be low on energy and often fell asleep on the sofa during the day but not anymore.
going dairy free is the best thing we ever did and we will never go back. This is no scam it really works. but dont take my word for it,give it a try for 3 months and see what happens.oh by the way we now use unsweetened soya milk as a substitute on cereals but we drink black earl grey tea and black coffee.I for one know i will never put that dairy gunk in my body ever again.i am leaner and have more energy at 51 than i had in my 20s 30s & 40s. its just amazing what difference it makes to your life.everything i say is 100% true and i would take a polygraph test to that effect.
thanks for listening and i hope others change their lives too by going dairy free because it really does work.
That means no milk,butter,chocolate,margerine,cakes,biscuits,crisps,ready meals,or any other processed foods that contain milk or dairy.my waistline was 36 inches and now 11 months later its 30 inches.So my last word on this is GO FOR IT!!! 🙂
best wishes from keith & helen in the UK.
Ok here we go again, firstly well done on your weight loss program, I however fear that cutting out milk isnot responsible for the good results you are yielding.
Studies have shown that a calcium source, specifically in the morning can help bolster the bodys ability to metabolise fats.
I cant be bothered to trawl the internet (as my subscription service is currently frozen due to lackof need currently) again for the specific study as I have done this enough for this website.
Here is a link from webMD summarising the beneficial effects of calcium and weight loss:
https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20000417/calcium-low-fat-diet
I feel your weight loss results are more due to your own determination and the fact you made a conscious decision to approach your eating habbits in this way, It feels as though you have been researching and controlling your callories in a more specific mannor and possibly even undergoing new activities to aid in calory burning. Regardless of weather milk is in your diet approaching your eating habbits in this way will always yield positive results if undertaken with adequate conviction and determination. Well done! But also to reiterate an older point of mine. You does not = the whole world.
I stopped drinking milk 3 years ago. What radically decreased in my life? The number of times I would get sinus infections.
I changed nothing else in my lifestyle except cutting out milk.
Now in the last 3 years, I’ve had one sinuses infection whereas before I would get one every year, sometimes twice.
AMEN!
I created an account on here for the sole purpose of telling Matt to shut the hell up. My god dude, do something useful with your life instead of posting 500 comments on a website about milk. There are MANY things I don’t agree with in life, but there’s no use arguing and swearing at people via comments about it. I pers
onally believe humans shouldn’t consume any milk other than human milk, but I’m not gonna go to the dairy websites and post a million comments about how stupid everyone there is. If you have a lot of free time on your hands try volunteering somewhere or something.
1. You don’t have to sign up to post
2. I have not sworn at anyone,someone swore at me.
3. This website is a massive scam, it uses the nutritional industries polarisation on dairy to flog a dodgy product, all Vivian’s special diet does is cuts out Milk based on absolutely wrong science, then proceeds in just giving people with these conditions their greatly needed calcium source from other calcium rich foods, which are not as easily accessible and costs more money.
If you don’t want to drink milk thats fine, but Vivian’s reasons to not do so are just plain lies. She then proceeds to prescribe easy Level 2 fitness instructor (Gym Instructor) exercise plans for extortionate prices.
4. Hi Vivian, these personal attacks against me only seem to get posted when I post something that the website cant legally refute without getting themselves into a lot of trouble. So you can log back into your “Vivian” account if you like, (you know the one with the completely different picture of a woman compared to the actress on the home page and videos) mumbling through half relevant science to baffle its “target audience” or as i prefer see it, “Victims”.
To re-iterate. SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM.
To Matt,
I quit drinking milk a long time ago when I noticed that if I did buy drink and drink milk, my allergies would get worse. My allergies completely disappeared when I gave up milk for good. Why don’t you try giving up milk for a while and see if your health improves–including your mental health. Just try it.
Maybe you were allergic or had a slight intollerance to milk……..? You, does not = entireworld. Getting bored, reported the website to beuro of better business anyway. Have fun.
I just can’t stress how silly your comment is and how Matt hit the nail on the head when he told you that you are but one person.
There seem to be quite a few people who stopped drinking milk and have seen results, but at the same time they are also making lifestyle changes altogether.
How can you be so sure that it was milk that was effecting you so negatively?
Once again, you are one person out of 7 billion.
Your allergies are your personal defect, inferior being. Don’t blame it on milk, cause for sure, there are countless of regular milk drinkers who are healthier than you. It’s like what matt said, anyway there are also people who are lactose intolerant, but it does not mean that all people are lactose intolerant. Have you ever heard of diversity?
Dear Matt,
I agree with a lot what your saying. This web content is a hoax without doubt. They say milk is acidic, which it is but only slightly. Milk has a PH of 6.7 where as water has a PH of 7.0 so milk is just a little under PH neutral. They continue to say when consumed, milk draws calcium from bones to neutralise the acidity in milk hence depleting bones of important calcium. Stomach acid has a PH less then 2, why would the body need to draw calcium from it’s bones when stomach acid is 3-4 times stronger then what it’s digesting/separating? In this case MILK!
Essential energy providing staples (or complex carbohydrates) like rice, corn, potato’s, legumes etc all have PH that is lower then the PH of milk which makes Carbohydrates more acidic. Carbohydrates make up the biggest portion of any ones diet in any part of the world. According to this information complex carbohydrates should also be dismissed from our diets as well because of the level of acidity they have if we want to retain calcium. Is that correct Vivian?
Dairy is good for most but it’s what the industries induce in milk in the process (effectively making milk a processed food) that cause all sorts negative symptoms and disease. Milk is obviously less nutritious in comparison to fruits & vegetables but fruits & vegetables are nowhere near as nutritious as they were when they grew naturally without artificial aid.
To everyone in the world, I know it’s a bore & extremely confusing researching nutrition but do your own research, use common sense & think logically.
They mean acid-forming vs alkaline-forming after your body processes it. Not the actual ph of something.
Thank you for helping those of us that read articles like this and are certain the author must be correct about all the facts listed. Whomever this Matt person is, they have listed many more facts than were present in the article, and… they are not trying to sell anything. “just visit your GP…” is great advice for all of us. Thank you, Matt.
Matt you are 100% right… there is nothing in this article that states that milk is bad, the empirical evidence is shaky at best and there is not a single shred of evidence to state that Milk causes any of these problems. If Vivian could inform her readers to the fullest extent that would be great!
So you think what you did is useful? oh please. Nobody wants to read the story of your life dude.
Matt, I’m curious – if you dislike this site so much and disagree with everything so vehemently, why do you continue to log on, read, and participate?
Because you are over selling yourself, and your product. On unsubstantiated evidence and in a way that I think intentionally misleading and dishonest. Shame on you. Feel free to refute anything I have claimed in my comments with evidence to back up your statement or respond with any evidence of your study or trials qualifying your claims. Thanks. Im done.
I think it’s important that he does. I’m sure you would have had a better response to his statement if you weren’t simply scamming people that have deficiencies regarding bone density or osteoporosis ,etc.
That and you’re preying on people who fall easily to conspiracies and are quick to believe that milk is a horrible liquid to digest.
It’s simple, really. Especially when you name-drop companies such as ‘Monsanto’ who everyone is now finally figuring out to be a disgusting company with horrible ethics and standards.
You are feeding off of companies like them. Turning people’s fear of being unable to escape tainted groceries into a financial advantage for yourself.
No** plyometric movement. In first video describing wide arm wall assisted press up.
Come on people, 25 year study The China Study, this is all facts, makes perfect sense if you can get through your brainwashing…good luck.
Eastern diets are very different from western diets, they also consume larger amounts of seafood and fish leading to a better Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio, however also consume much larger portions and simple refined white rice. Nutrition is all encompassing and you are starting juice oranges to make apple juice in my opinion, and this article and book is obviously aimed at the westerner.
The “man” is not always out to get you, and abiding by “authority” on certain things such as well qualified people interpreting scientific data does not make people brainwashed. Not every tom dick and harry with an alternative view is a pioneer. Some yes, this one, no. In my humble opinion.
Also the scope of The China study was very wide, and no clear assosciation was defined between the consumption of animal products and “western diseass”. Also an article you may find interestingnand imwould encourage anyone to quickly google is ” the homocysteine revolution”. Ill post a link with a decent summary for the time deprived.
https://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/homocysteine.html
Again too much of anything is never good and a balanced and varied nutritious diet is key.
Again simplified homocysteine is and intermediary amino acid and the health implications arise from lack of, or too muchof certain nutrients, ie an imbalance. Eg elevated methionine levels and not enough B6, B12 and B9 (Folic acid). If you are a health conscious individual this is the research data you want to be concernng yourself with in my opinion. Its really exiting stuff.
Oh sorry i missed your reply to my previous comment too.
“Wow, get a fucking life dude, it’s fine you don’t agree, the rest of the intelligent world does…it’s pretty simple science really, you’re not a fucking cow.”
Bobby do right being the spokesman for the intelligent world, unfortunately i must have missed the memo.
As for the “simple science” involved..again spokesman of the intelligent world you are correct, biochemistry is renowned for its easy to grasp straight forward simple concepts. And little details like organic life being fundamentally the most complex states of matter in the known universe. All i can say is thank good your not a “fucking” scientist, you would make a good “fucking” cow though. All you would have to do is look at he floor and chew on it all day, but guess what. The science behind grass isn’t all that simple either.
Exaclty
I just saw a commercial that said silk almond milk has 50% more calcium than regular milk. So, if milk depletes/uses up your calcium, and silk milk has 50% more calcium, wouldn’t silk milk be even worse than choosing cow milk and keep you more so in the red zone.
Pasteurized cows milk causes the body to become more acid in pH. To reduce the pH, the body draws upon the calcium stored in your bones to neutralize the acidity.
almonds, and other nuts, are by nature more alkaline, therefore, the body does not need to neutralize the body’s pH after consuming non-dairy milk products.
It’s not the calcium that’s IN the milk that is the problem.
Your body doesn’t use calcium phosphate that is in your bones to neutralize acid. The buffer in your blood takes care of that. What this article is stating is ignorance, not science.
What’s scary is that you’re trying to defend Vivian’s science with her own made-up science.
Forget that you read her article and try to reply to Chemist’s comment with your own scientific knowledge.
First of all, Calcium itself is a Lewis acid, so it doesn’t neutralize anything. Secondly, the pH shift is almost unnoticeable because your body’s pH is in a buffered state. If you don’t know what that means, go pick up a high school chemistry book. Oh, and by the way, your saliva can be much more acidic than milk, as is your gastric acid. What this woman is peddling is the opposite of science. Milk is a highly nutrition packed food. The Irish lived for hundreds of years on a diet consisting mostly of dairy and potatoes. Also almond “milk” is a MUCH more highly processed product than milk. I’ll give you a hint as to why: Almonds don’t have mammary glands.
Learn more about how the Osteoporosis Reversal Program treatment is guaranteed to reverse osteoporosis and osteopenia in one year or less …
I would LOVE you to reference the impartial double blind studies that were undertaken that qualify this statement also.
Preying on people with sever medical conditions and selling Hope! Disgusting, absolutely shame on you vivian. Please everyone, just book an appointment with your GP and get an appointment with a dietitian or pay to see a qualified dietitian if you want to find out the best ways to combat your illness as best you can using a healthy diet of well sourced natural foods instead of this hope in a bottle nonsense. I wouldn’t even be surprised if she is being backed by an almond milk production company because they style of writing and sheer magnitude of unsubstantiated misinformation she is declaring wreaks of a covert sales campaign somewhere even if it just starts with the book!
Matt, you are disgusting!!Had never come across anyone full of hatred and foul mouth.